#helluva critic

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

There’s just…there’s such cognitive dissonance in the Helluva Boss and Hazbin Fandoms when it comes to tone and portraying things like abuse vs. slapstick comedy.

Its really fascinating to me, because if you do point out that there is a double standard in the ways that violence and abuse is framed in certain plot points, you’re usually told that you’re “media illiterate” and that you “don’t understand” how slapstick works. (More below)

Which is wild because the issue is not with slapstick. It’s with the rapidly oscillating tone in the narrative. We’ll see Stella attempt to slap Stolas, and it’s treated as a serious abuse, but when Loona violently beats up Blitz during an argument they’re having, the audience is expected to see this as “slapstick”.

It’s like if Tom and Jerry had an episode with their usual shenanigans, and then suddenly in the middle of it Tom had a realistic panic attack and broke down over all the times he’s been hurt b/c of Jerry. And then in the next episode they just went back to the status quo.

We can find an actual example of this exact same tone issue though in the animated sitcom, Family Guy. Specifically, the episode "Screams of Silence: The Story of Brenda Q"

Family Guy is a show that’s had a long history of violence as a source of comedy—but in the above episode, they attempted (very poorly in my opinion) to tackle the subject of domestic abuse and violence, completely straight.

When this episode came out, it was widely panned and disliked by critics and audiences. Brenda’s initial appearance, while still dealing with domestic abuse, was played off mostly as a one time joke, and was a small bit part of the episode itself.

I think this was a really understandable reaction to the “The Story of Brenda Q” because it was such tonal whiplash from Family Guy’s usual storylines.

The Hellaverse, to me, has the exact same problem. The narrative occasionally treats the heavy topics being depicted as serious issues, but will then switch to making jokes about the exact same topics later.

We see this in Hazbin with the way sexual assault is treated—Angel Dust’s sexual assault is treated as a serious matter, but two episodes later, when Sir Pentious is sexually assaulted, it’s treated as a joke.

I’ve seen fans say that the Sir Pent joke “works” because he wasn’t “actually raped” and I just. I don’t know how to explain to others that sexual assault does not have to escalate to rape to still be sexual assault. Someone touching your body for their own sexual gratification, without your explicit consent, is sexual assault.

Sir Pentious being dragged into a designated “sex room” against his will, while he’s actively saying “no” and is clawing at the ground, is sexual assault. It just is.

And hey, if you WANT to frame that as a joke, you technically can. But doing so undeniably undercuts the anti—sexual violence and anti—sexual assault message that you claim is central to your show’s narrative.

Again, as always you can disagree, this is only my opinion. There’s definitely more examples of other shows (and of Family Guy again, with Meg Griffin) doing this tonal whiplash in their stories, but you have to really be delicate with threading that needle in order to make it work, something that the Hellaverse just doesn’t yet have the maturity to do.

[fortunelowtier]

Ok so i saw a post mentioning how Spindlehorse was hiring animators again, and i thought "huh yknow im really curious what the turnover rate of animators is in this studio" because i mean its a genuine question considering how i swear theyre hiring new animators every other week

So then i checked IMDB...

Before i go on i wanna put some context because its kinda needed for what im about to say:

On IMDB there's a section of the cast and crew page labeled "Series Animation Department". This is the section meant primarily for animators and storyboarders among other jobs in the same vein.

Now. Can you guess how many animators/storyboarders Helluva Boss has gone through in less than 2 seasons?

444.

That is four hundred and forty-four individual credits, a majority of whom didn't stay for any longer than a few episodes. I have never in my life seen an animator turnover rate this skewed.

But i saw this and i went "well it cant be that bad right, what about other shows?" because admittedly i didnt know a lot about animation so for all i knew this was normal. So i went to the IMDB pages of other animated shows

RWBY: 164 credited animators over 9 seasons

Murder Drones: 11 Animators over 7 episodes

The Owl House: 88 Animators over 3 seasons

Amphibia: 73 over 3 seasons

Steven Universe: 44 over 5 seasons

And just to be fair let's include Hazbin Hotel, which had 62 in 1 season

This means that for one reason or another Helluva Boss has gone through more animators in less than 2 seasons than shows that ran for SIGNIFICANTLY longer go through in their entire lifespan by several times and that astounds me

[prokopetz]

The character designs aside, I guess the big reason I can't take the whole Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss franchise seriously is because its sense of humour feels like it's written by and for people who thought this guy was the height of sophisticated comedy:

[theoddest1]

Lmaoooo

Edit:

Samantha is a Story Artist, Animator, and Animation BFA who works for Viv on both HH and HB.

2nd Edit: Some of y'all need to chill in the comments with certain things you say. It ain't finna make any point come across decently with how you spread some info. I get being mad at some of the reactions, don't get me wrong, but bring it back down slow plz.

[66kenobi66]

Here's some good Hazbin/Helluva critical videos I've seen (since it's so hard to find good ones on YT)

(Both are by GalXE!)

(Left one is by HezuReviews, right is by Autistic Swag!)

(Both are by Madeline Maye!)

(Both are by Cassidy Whiskey!)

Please go check these people out, all of them are extremely talented. Some of them even shared some insight and clever criticism into this series that I hadn't even thought of! (I especially like the Madeline Mayne ones as they poke into how both HB and HH fail at their queer representation.)

[helluvabossrewrite45]

I'm so proud of her. Cut him out of your life Octavia. It's for the best.

[sapphic-agent]

This is plot manipulation if I've ever seen it.

Let me be clear, making Stella abusive is not the issue. The issue is the pandering the narrative does to Stolas here. Stolas is shown to us as a bright-eyed, sensitive kid. Stella, as a child as young as Stolas and in the same position as him, is shown to us as a violent and malicious heathen. It goes out of its way to establish, before they've even met, that Stella is the abuser and Stolas is the poor victim.

Viv says she was inspired by Bojack Horseman. As a HUGE fan of BH, I think her and the other writers really missed the mark. For reference, let's look at Bojack and his abusive mother Beatrice, both as children.

Do you see the difference? Do you see the way it's emphasized that they both started out as just children in shitty situations?

And they still maintain that Beatrice was a monster. They humanize her without excusing her behavior. They humanize Bojack without excusing his behavior. No one starts off as a bad person, but the fact that the HB writers try to hammer in that Stella from the start was an irredeemable monster while Stolas is the sole victim throughout his entire life doesn't sit well with me

[redjoey1992]

Why does Viv try to subvert these moments that would've made Moxxie, Alastor, and Charlie a lot more badass than before? It would've showcased their development/growth, but they ended up getting the short end of the stick.

Moxxie ends up being saved by Millie, Alastor got his ass kicked by Adam and then just vanishes, and Charlie got her ass kicked, and Lucifer has to come in and kicks Adam's ass effortlessly.

Don't these characters deserve a moment of awesomeness on their own without anybody’s help? I'm not saying that it's not okay to ask for help, but these characters should've been able to handle them well on their own.

[vivziepopcriticalconfessions]

"As a child of divorce, I just feel like no one has pointed out how messed up and scary it is for stolas to effectively lose custody of Octavia, and then show up to the place she's staying and assault one of the adults protecting her. Yeah, narrativly Stella and andraelphus are villians, but those are her caretakers currently. I just don't see anyone talking about this angle"

Submitted by anonymous

[funhouse-mirror-barbie]

I gotta say. Looking back on it, there’s no real reason that the Full Moon Deal even needs to exist.

Like, Stolas fully could have let Blitzø know he needed the book back on the full moon, and then just asked if he wanted to have messy hook ups when he dropped the book off for the night in addition to whatever other hook ups they may want to have with each other in their day to day lives. (More below cut)

There would still be some power imbalances there obviously, but I feel like that’s a much better jumping off point for a “complicated/messy queer relationship” than “if you have sex with me once a month I’ll let you keep my book that your business needs to stay afloat”

Have the relationship start with some power imbalances regarding Stolas and Blitzø’s class, maybe have Blitzø be anxious about Stolas potentially taking the book back permanently but without any transactional deal—this makes it clearer that Blitzø is more worried about not being good enough or being rejected by Stolas.

Establish that Stolas lets Blitzø know he can use the book whenever, and wants Blitzø to have access of it no-strings-attached with the only exception being the night of the full moon, and have difficulty understanding why Blitzø gets anxious about it.

Stolas could misunderstand Blitzø’s insecurities and think the issue is just about money—he offers to pay for everything having to do with I.M.P. and insults Blitzø in the process, since Blitzø wants to be a self-made Imp.

Due to Stolas’ class he can’t understand why Blitzø doesn’t want help with money or why giving I.M.P. money is any different from giving them his grimoire to use.

If there’s no threat of the book being taken away if Blitzø doesn’t want to have sex with Stolas, if they’re just friends with benefits, the conflict can revolve more around their inability to communicate well with each other and realize their true feelings.

Maybe they get into a fight because Blitzø can’t believe or struggles to believe that Stolas will never get bored of him and take the book back for good, despite Stolas reassuring him that won’t happen.

You can honestly have the EXACT same conflict where they both begin to catch deeper feelings, but because it’s always been about sex between the two of them, Blitzø still thinks that’s all Stolas is interested in, and Stolas takes this as a rejection. It’s the same conflict as in the show proper, but there’s not this weird quid pro quo situation dangling over Blitzø.

These are just a BUNCH of ideas I’m kinda bouncing around, but the main point is that the conflict between the two would be free-er to go different places, and would be more focused on Stolas and Blitzø learning to navigate their own feelings minus the whole “if Blitzo says no to Stolas or the deal, there’s a very real chance he’ll lose his business and everything he’s worked for”.

In hindsight, the Full Moon deal and everything surrounding it and Stolas’ season 1 characterization makes it clearer than ever that they never had a plan for this show’s story when they started to make it.

With the development of this whole story arc it just becomes more and more evident that they wrote the Full Moon Deal in as a way to explain why Blitzø would ever continue sleeping with Stolas, instead of just like. Writing Blitzø as actually wanting to have consensual sex with Stolas.

I’m sure there’s something I probably forgot or like…some plot hole fans know about that “proves” the Full Moon Deal was the only way to do things but like. Even so, I just don’t see why it needed to be a thing at all if Stolitz was endgame.

[dwewi66]

They'll never make me hate you.

[sophieabigail2021]

"How fandom react to criticism" wheel

[mickmeasley]

theory:

vivziepop kickstarted the indie animation revolution the same way freud is the father of modern psychology:

by having some good ideas but elaborating on them so badly alongside a whole bunch of terrible ideas that a whole bunch of people felt compelled to come on the scene just to keep the ball rolling and steer things in a better direction, partly to prove they could and because they had genuine passion, but also because letting freud/vivzie be the sole, defining player in the field would be very embarrasing for everyone

so much of what i feel is poorly executed/sorely lacking in hazbin hotel and helluva boss is done so much better in all the other indie cartoons that I almost feel like this is genuinely the case, that taking the cool ideas of hazbin/helluva and actually doing them well this time was in the back of everyones mind when formulating their series concepts

>The Amazing Digital Circus

does the "character-based-dramedy around finding connection and meaning in (whats basically) hell" better

>Lackadaisy

takes the "gangster furries in snappy suits + art deco aesthetic" ball and runs with it, but they actually can design good character designs and period accurate clothing

>Murder Drones

idk much about this one, havent watched it but from what i've heard they do the whole "emo angst meets cosmic horror" thing a lot better

>The Gaslight District

Worldbuilding and aesthetic reminds me a lot of Helluva Boss/Hazbin Hotel, but here its WAY more coherent and focused, with the pilot actually answering a lot of obvious questions about the worldbuilding similar to ones that, IIRC, Hazbin/Helluva stil hasn't answered to this day. Also, better action, better art direction, better edgy humor/characters, better music, better father/daughter dynamic, better fucking everything

[sleeplessdreamer14]

When you really think about it, Charlie prioritizing sinners, these objectively horrible people, over her actual people, the natives of Hell who are struggling to make it in the Pride Ring, especially with human souls ending up in Hell and causing an overpopulation crisis requiring annual exterminations, is kinda fucked up. And the way she goes about her delusions adds insult to injury.

references from Adventure Time: Distant Lands, Obsidian

reblogs are appreciated, please do not repost, and remember to do your daily clicks

[bump-inthe-night]

Vivziepop fans claiming adding black features to her black characters would’ve made it “too difficult” to animate them is a hilarious excuse considering this is the same woman who had characters like these animated:

Another excuse fans have been using is that Vivziepop’s art style is “unsuitable” for black characters, despite her crew members proving otherwise: 

No art style is "unsuitable" for black characters because it's the artist's responsibility to learn how to draw them in their style. There's no excuse for black characters not looking black in your style.

Vivziepop could draw black features in her style but CHOSE not to, hence why none of the black characters look black outside their skin color, which sometimes they don't even have.

[66kenobi66]

Shoutout to my girl Angel Gabby for being a better representation of Religion, Angels, and trauma than all of the Hellaverse!

She's literally me fr.

(Please go check out Angel Hare on the The East Patch Youtube channel!!!)